Since college I have wrestled with these two systems of theology. Every church I have been a part of has Arminianism beliefs but many great theologians and Christian leaders that I respect have Calvinist beliefs. Recently Time Magazine listed "New Calvinism" as the #3 idea that is changing the world. Leaders that I respect so much like John Piper, Matt Chandler, Mark Driscoll, and Matt Carter are lead voices for this movement that is impacting the world. At the same time there are leaders like Gregg Matte and Hardy Clemons that I also respect incredibly have spoken very convincingly about their Arminianism beliefs. Honestly, I have avoided this debate and thought it was not worth the argument. Many of my friends have this same mindset but others will challenge me saying that it's critical and I must understand what I believe and why I believe it. As I hear discussions both sides seemingly use scripture to defend their beliefs. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I would love to hear your thoughts. I would love to hear what you believe and why. I would also love to hear about any specific readings that you might suggest or good websites for research on this debate.
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Hey, I got to your blog through Becky. I love that you are asking this question. This subject began to come up in my world senior year of high school and for about a year my response was always that it didn't matter. You are saved or your not and weather you chose it or you were chosen didn't change the end result. But as I continued to hear friends discuss it, and as I ran into in book and bible studies, I came to a place of wanting to know. But i was tired of hearing the wisdom of men regarding the subject. I wanted to know what God's word said about it. So for a little more than a year I prayed for the Spirit to teach me as I studied scripture. I looked up scriptures that both camps use to back their convictions. I read them in context. I asked for understanding. One set seemed to be discussed with context in mind while the other argument did not seem to make since in the whole of scripture or sometimes even in the passages they are found in. Romans 9 and John 10 were huge for me. Also Romans 8:29-30 "Those he foreknew he also predestined...those he predestined he also called. Those he called, he also justified, and those he justified, he also glorified." The foreknew is the same kind of knowing that is talked about in regards to God intimately knowing Abraham. He intimately knew his children ahead of time. And those are the ones he predestined. And those he predestined he is sure to call. And then, here it is, if he called you, he justified you and glorified you. So the call cannot be for everyone because then the previous statement would not be true.
Now, let me say that, though I have been convinced that election is true, I am still flesh and may find out in the end that I am wrong. But I know that my time studying the issue led to a deeper understanding of God's sovereignty and thus a deeper trust in Him. I am hugely convinced that the depth of your faith is directly connected to the sphere of God's sovereignty. If you think he is only sovereign over certain things, you will only surrender certain things instead of everything. Believing that I had no part in my salvation isn't necessarily a comfortable belief, but it is what i see in scripture. And there are a lot of hard truths that I have to accept because it's in the word of God.
There are many Godly people that would disagree. There are people I love and enjoy community with that have studied scripture and come to a different conclusion. Although I think the outcome is important, the process of seeking God is more important. I would encourage you to dive into scripture. Seek out truth by going to the source. But whatever your conclusion is, remember that it is not worth breaking fellowship over. Being right is great, but being in right relationship is better and that many times means holding to your convictions in your heart while also holding your tongue.
I pray that as you seek Him, you would find wisdom and understanding beyond your own.
Wow, a new word and topic to learn about. I have no clue what Arminianism is! We once visited a small independent Baptist church & the whole sermon was about how the pastor was not a Calvinist. I truly have no clue what his point was other than just to say that. Though I suppose God had ordained that we'd be there that day to hear it. =)
Erin,
Thank you so much for your comment and your thoughts! It's clear that you have wrestled through this issue. I love what you said in being right is great but being in a right relationship is even better. Great thoughts, thanks again for the comment!
Tough question, "what do you believe?". The foundational belief that I cling to is that grace is sufficient for salvation - nothing I can do can bring me to a saving faith in Christ but accept His free gift of grace.
Like Erin, I need to dive in and really study the Bible to come to my own conclusion. Based on what I've studied in the past (John and Romans), I believe that Election is true, but I also believe that God didn't create us to be puppets. If He did, then why the fall? Why would He allow His creation to be allowed to choose something other than Him, even for a short time?
Obviously, I need to study this some more, but it is an interesting question that we each need to have an answer for. Good, thought provoking post, Nils.
Thanks for your comment, Terry. I don't think this is an answer that we can come to easily. I would say that you and I are in a similar place of understand. I read the words "elect" and "predestined" in the Bible but they aren't in line with what I have been taught to this point. As far as what I believe, honestly, I'm not sure. Up to this point I would say that I dont care, but I do! I want to know what I believe and why I believe it. This is important and why I might not fully be in line with the Calvinist or Arminianist perspectives, I need to know what my understanding of the scriptures is. Thanks for your comment and sharing your thoughts!
Hi there, I ran across your site today. I'm Arminian because I believe Arminianism best represents the overall tenor of scripture. In reality, both Calvinism and Arminianism are God centered, and it serves us well to recognize that both systems are interested in protecting an aspect of God's character.
Calvinists focus on God's sovereignty. They believe that anything that takes away from or threatens God's sovereignty is wrong. So Calvinists reject anything having to do with free will, because that would give man a say in his destiny.
Arminians focus on God's love. They believe that anything that takes away from God's love is wrong. So Arminians reject determinism and anything that implies that God ordains certain individuals to damnation.
Here's a quote that I've found helpful in reconciling God's sovereignty with his love. It is by A.W. Tozer.
"God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, “What doest thou?” Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so."
God bless,
Kevin
Erin, Saints have two souls. One "contains" the natural mind from the Fall of Adam & Eve (hence all are begat ad sinners). The other Soul is Holy Soul "containing" the Mind of God (part of the New Creation in a Saint). Therefore, it is possible for two Saints to have opposing views of any and every Scriptural subject. And each claim to be Scripturally correct, even quoting Scriptures. But, goodness, even the devil quotes Scriptures.
Truth is always the parabolic Heavenly Truth with God's Heavenly meaning known only to the Mind of God (1 Corinthians 2:16 & 2:14). There is MUCH to be learned from God in His Mind, especially when knowing of the two souls.
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